Lake Powell, the 2nd largest reservoir in the US, is at 22% capacity. ~8 points away from Glen Canyon Dam going dark.

[u/AbysmalMoose]

[u/False-Tiger5691]

We are rapidly approaching a major breaking point in the Southwest.

[u/Maximum-Warning9355 → u/False-Tiger5691]

Let’s keep building farmland and data centers! That should help!

[u/False-Tiger5691 → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

I can’t comprehend the level of greed and immorality it takes to make these decisions.

[u/errorblankfield → u/False-Tiger5691]

Really? It's quite simple. 

Don't think about the consequences and surround yourself with fun distractions so you never have time to critically self reflect.

Have layers and layers of employees below you to scapegoat the burden of choice into.

So you say build me a data center and... It gets built while you are out golfing.

Only X employee deep even notice | witnesses the impacts. No one's salary depends on measuring said impacts, quite the opposite actually. 

Then you hire cogs that deal with the blah blah upset people. A dead end complaint department. 

Just keep dancing.

[u/Jessintheend → u/errorblankfield]

A lot of the water use the desert would be fixed by just passing a quick and dirty legislation stating “no water intense crops, including ALFALFA shall be grown for the express purpose of export.

Bam. That’s 40% of the water saved right there

[u/SereneSnake1984 → u/Jessintheend]

The bilionaire who owns the land will just pay the fine to keep growing alfalfa for his horses back home in the middle east. Its transferring our water as wealth, now that dollars don't mean anything to them.

[u/Leading-Loss-986 → u/SereneSnake1984]

IMO, the fine system in our country is laughable. Fines should be based on the assets/revenue of the person/corporation and convey a similar degree of… discouragement… regardless of the wealth of the violator.

[u/whomad1215 → u/Leading-Loss-986]

Percentage based

And/or higher than the profit they made

[u/Jessintheend → u/whomad1215]

At minimum, whatever profit they made from breaking the law multiplied by a percentage of their profits.

You made a billion breaking the law and netted 5 billion the same year? Now your fine is $2.5B

[u/ZestyLeek → u/Jessintheend]

If the person receiving the fine doesn't feel it in their accounts, it's not enough. A fine should make someone say "woah, that sucks, I'll never do that again".

[u/Caymonki → u/errorblankfield]

Even easier.

Grow up being told you are special and above everything else on the planet. You are Elite, Entitled and Consequences Do Not Apply To You. Then everything else is destructible, sellable, profitable and exploitable. People dying is like stepping on ants, it doesn’t matter to you at all and it never did nor will it ever. If anything that is ALSO profitable.

We’re the ants, they don’t even think about us at all beyond profit and exploitation. We’re pests, we are the cattle class.

[u/Mr_Byzantine → u/Caymonki]

We all need to stand up to them, as a united force!

[u/usekr3 → u/Mr_Byzantine]

the old ways and forbidden knowlege.

[u/davekingofrock → u/Mr_Byzantine]

Why would we do that when we can be angry about trans people and Game of Thrones casting?

[u/DonMegatronEsq → u/davekingofrock]

Social media is the new “opiate of the masses.”

[u/Zyrinj → u/errorblankfield]

Late stage capitalism with profits being used to lobby the agencies responsible for keeping companies accountable to the governments constituents.

Been a slow train wreck years in the making and AI is the end game with the customer service cogs being replaced with AI agents.

Next decade will be rough for the majority of us

[u/FireMike_PleaseGod → u/Zyrinj]

Lowkey am optimistic about the next decade. We are reaching a lot of breaking points on when structural changes actually occur.

There is no worse spot to be than the slow dying creep of “good enough”. For many they are not in a spot of “good enough” and once your tip below that people demand change.

[u/YoungPotato → u/FireMike_PleaseGod]

I appreciate your optimism. It just sucks that humanity operates on a “things will hit rock bottom before it gets better” vibe instead of just improving society for the sake of it.

[u/westernsociety → u/YoungPotato]

Anyone who's dealt with an alcoholic knows that just how humanity works lol. Eventually something can inspire change but has to be a borderline traumatic experience.

[u/DReagan47 → u/westernsociety]

Kind of like what Ben Affleck said the other day about his drinking. The only way to truly change is to suffer. To reach a point so low that there’s no other option but to start making positive changes.

[u/Islands-of-Time → u/DReagan47]

My cousin drank himself to death after years of hitting rock bottom.

There is always a worse, final bottom, and we’re getting closer to that bottom everyday. If we don’t start making changes, there will be consequences that we can’t undo or back out of.

[u/2000KitKat → u/False-Tiger5691]

The governor of my state Utah owns alfalfa farms. Around 80% of all Utahs water is being used for farming.

[u/jackinsomniac → u/2000KitKat]

Arizona was doing something even dumber before. Growing alfalfa for Saudia Arabia. They shut it down a few years ago, but my god, who thought that was a good idea in the first place?

[u/windchaser__ → u/False-Tiger5691]

You can build data centers that used closed-loop cooling, that only need water once and they’re done.

Currently, far far far far more water goes to agriculture and golf courses. Like yes, let’s stop data centers from also becoming a problem, but we do also need to deal with the existing problems: water rights in a drying land.

[u/Solintari → u/windchaser__]

By and large it's really not golf courses, so don't lump them in with the agriculture. The total COMBINED residential use is 18%. which includes golf courses and data centers.

Irrigated farms wasting it on alfalfa are by far the biggest consumers that go to feed cattle. That crop alone is almost double what all residential use is.

[u/battenhill → u/windchaser__]

I knew about them seeing the PGA tour or whatever, but I just had never really thought about them - but once I visited Arizona and saw the scale of the golf courses there I was seriously gobsmacked. The sheer scale of water usage I can't even conceive of in my mind. I had a vision in my head of the reservoirs just draining like bathtub as they watered the desert, almost sent me into a depression lol.

Couple this with there being water restrictions at the time I was there, and on tv they interviewed a man (of a certain generation, use your imagination lol) on a golf course, in a stupid visor, in June, it's 108 degrees, and he said "why do we have to ration water?? it's a violation of our rights" - bro you live in a desert. 

[u/ShadowGLI → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

Yes, more Saudi Alfalfa in Arizona, people don’t need water. We need to reward those giving millions to our dear leader and his family

/s

[u/AlcibiadesTheCat → u/ShadowGLI]

I have a friend who owns a share in a Cessna 172, and once he flew me from Phoenix to Yuma.

Seeing bright green below us (and dusty brown all around) for half of the trip was utter batshit insanity.

[u/smurficus103 → u/AlcibiadesTheCat]

Gila river -> Colorado river

Figure 1 shows 72% of az water use is agriculture, scrolling down, the whole picture is pretty bleak: we pump more ground water than we get from rainfall/snow melt https://mapazdashboard.arizona.edu/article/arizonas-water-use-sector

[u/billndotnet → u/smurficus103]

It'll all be fun and games until the aquifer fissures under the Central Arizona Canal or I-10.

[u/fakeaccount572 → u/ShadowGLI]

dont forget the 2900 golf courses in Arizona.

[u/PassivelyInvisible → u/fakeaccount572]

Hey! Those rich old retirees need something to do! Don't you dare make them spend their money on some other hobby that better suits the area! How dare you ask that they be responsible! /s

[u/gratusin → u/PassivelyInvisible]

My grandparents retired in AZ and went rockhounding as a hobby and used the rocks to xeriscape their yard. It looked way better than a lawn. That hobby is so much better for that state.

[u/gratusin → u/fakeaccount572]

There’s apparently a single golf course in Arizona that uses 6x the amount of water as all of ChatGPTs servers worldwide.

[u/SmellenGold → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

Alfalfa production takes incredible amounts of water. Guess what business our terrible fucking Gov. Calliou comes from. Alfalfa.

[u/faelanae → u/SmellenGold]

Fuck Calliou

[u/el-gato-volador → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

And then pay the farmers to not harvest and kill their crops, and give them a tax break on top of it

[u/skinwill → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

In the desert! Perfect place for crops and computers! /s

[u/bioszombie → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

Specifically let’s grow alfalfa!!

[u/seanmg → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

"Let’s keep building farmland and data centers! anything*. That should help!". It's the desert, why do people incest on occupying one of the least hospitable regions in the world?

edit: insist*, thanks autocorrect.

[u/That_Jicama2024 → u/Maximum-Warning9355]

Outsource more almond growing to saudi arabia in California! That'll do the trick! /s

[u/ThadeousCheeks → u/False-Tiger5691]

Who could've known building a water hungry civilization in the desert could end up like this?

[u/DavidBrooker → u/ThadeousCheeks]

And water-hungry is a separate intensifier, here, from the water use of civilization generally - a lot of users of the Colorado River are immensely and intentionally inefficient, much moreso than industrial users in areas that are much more water-rich. The laws surrounding the Colorado River seem to be set up for the explicit purpose of being as inefficient as possible.

[u/lil_king → u/DavidBrooker]

The paradox of beneficial use. Put the water to use in any capacity or lose the rights seemed like a good idea but really incentivizes inefficiency. Main factor you have flood irrigation and pistachio farms in the middle rio grande valley. Also golf courses - i know of a school in the sw that was gifted a lot of very old surface water rights. With nothing else to do with them they built a golf course to use that allocation. The second they can make more money leasing those rights out than they bring in with alumni tournaments i promise you they will get rid of that course

[u/Aware-Travel5256 → u/DavidBrooker]

It's tough bc our legal system was based on norms in England, where lack of water and rainfall changes over time is just not a concept.

Reworking the water rights touches a core part of our legal regime, and the regime just doesn't have a great toolbox for managing variable amounts of water flow as a scarce shared resource.

The rights were also based on what seems like an anomalously wet couple of decades in the Southwest

[u/bluedeer10 → u/ThadeousCheeks]

I feel like they could have made it work better if they didn't base their water rationing agreements off the wettest years in the Colorado River's history.

[u/_CMDR_ → u/False-Tiger5691]

The Saudis need alfalfa for their cows.

[u/Wast3edSpace → u/_CMDR_]

Those guys, the luck they must have. To be in control of a part of the world where literally pumping water into the ground causes oil to come out. No complicated drilling, no deep water or fracking, just a bunch of pipes and pumps.

[u/GloomyLingonberry509 → u/False-Tiger5691]

Is there anywhere that isn’t quietly approaching some sort of climate imposed geopolitical shitstorm in the next two decades?

Absolutely fucked across the board is the way it appears these days.

[u/LamesMcGee → u/GloomyLingonberry509]

Upstate New York is currently doing well... but we are a little nervous that we have near unlimited fresh water between The Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes... The data center companies are eyeing us hard...

[u/mike_headlesschicken → u/LamesMcGee]

same in Michigan, Veto'd a mine that would have ruined half of lake superior not too long ago

[u/Levitlame → u/LamesMcGee]

Chicago here. At a bare minimum The Great Lakes Treaty needs to be at the front of all our minds. They'll come for it

[u/Qadim3311 → u/LamesMcGee]

Hey man, let them figure that out for themselves.

We’re gonna be a big target in the water wars and climate-diasporas of tomorrow. Stay strapped, and vote down Flock, Axon, and data centers every chance you get.

[u/HD_Thoreau_aweigh → u/False-Tiger5691]

Mr. President, we are rapidly approaching a moment of truth both for ourselves as human beings and the life of our nation. Now truth is not always a pleasant thing.

[u/So_HauserAspen → u/False-Tiger5691]

Why did Biden drink all the water!

[u/Either-Ad1544]

Are people beyond the point of being able to get their boats out? This is insane

[u/WitchWithAGlitch → u/Either-Ad1544]

yeah that was like 10 years ago, now they're building roads out onto the lake bed to get to where the new marinas are and even those are having to be extended and parts of the lake are too shallow to boat safely.

i like watching this guy that typically covers lake mead (which is downstream from powell) but he does really nice casual videos on the lake (s) changes and showcases different things thoughout the local ecosystem and it's manmade infrastructure along with what they're facing as current and future challenges about it's management. it's pretty dope honestly.

here is his last video on lake powell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GidumuROsEM

[u/scottspjut → u/WitchWithAGlitch]

In 2008, I was an intern at the Las Vegas Review-Journal and wrote an article about a marina having to move to another part of Lake Mead because of water levels.

At the time, one of the other reporters told me, "People keep worrying and complaining about the water levels, but it would take 20 years before it ever really became an issue."

He was apparently right.

[u/Fozzymandius → u/scottspjut]

People say that like 20 years is that far away.

[u/Bowtie16bit → u/Fozzymandius]

Well, according to the world death rate, about 1.05 billion people died since 2008. So for a pretty large portion of the populace, this problem applied to them in the same fashion that justice applied to anything Donald Trump did or was involved in: very little, to none.

[u/tcbillhe → u/WitchWithAGlitch]

I love following those guys - it’s like guerrilla journalism

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Either-Ad1544]

No, they carved a new path to the lower water, so people can still get in and out. but the original dock is obviously useless.

[u/khonsu_27 → u/AbysmalMoose]

I watched a video recently of the opening of a new boat access, and it was like this super steep road 100' down from the main road lol. Very sad.

[u/Pollymath → u/Either-Ad1544]

We're at 3521 and at 3215 the last ramp at Wahweap is out of the water. Some ramps drop off really quick at low water, like the one the OP posted here. Others are very gradual and removing boats at those locations become difficult because of how shallow the water is.

They are currently building a new, much lower boat ramp near Bullfrog at Stanton Creek. It will allow access at 3500, but potentially 3450 in the future. It is expected that this new ramp could provide access to the water only 100' above the historical riverbed.

[u/northrivergeek → u/Either-Ad1544]

If you have a kayak ur golden lol

[u/Bennyboy1337 → u/northrivergeek]

Kayak/paddle board tourism is actually thriving in Glen Canyon now that the waters are so low, it's opening up a bunch of stunning canyons that have been underwater for almost 60 years. The beauty of the canyon is slowly coming back.

[u/Rhymeswithdick]

Top is from 2023. Bottom from years before. Almost from the same vantage point. We’ve been camping at sites overlooking the lake for years.

[u/Pretend_Mall_7036 → u/Rhymeswithdick]

Really cool shots!  Scary to look at, but also very interesting to see what Glen Canyon actually looked like.  

[u/Rhymeswithdick → u/Pretend_Mall_7036]

It’s kind of bonkers because it looks different every single time we’ve gone, for decades. There’s always houseboats on the lake that make little coves their home for a bit & it’s been weird to see those coves, change &/or disappear over the years.

[u/chawkey4 → u/Pretend_Mall_7036]

This is the one positive I can see from this. Perhaps for selfish reasons, on some level I’d welcome the return of Glen Canyon.

[u/Additional_Data_Need → u/Pretend_Mall_7036]

Read Desert Solitaire for a good description of what was lost.

[u/kandipye191 → u/Rhymeswithdick]

Is this gunsight butte?

[u/Rhymeswithdick → u/kandipye191]

Correct. Taken from various parts of Alstrom Point.

[u/synapstic → u/Rhymeswithdick]

Gunsight Bay and Padre Bay has been an annual summer destination for my extended family going back 40+ years. Sad to see such change, even year over year. The cut made by Wahweap Marina to skip the channel was such a time saver. We haven’t been back in 5 years. I’m presuming that isn’t even accessible anymore.

Semi related, the “full pool” mark at that marina is clear up in the middle of the parking lot. Wild to think there used to be THAT much water at Powell.

[u/gkfesterton → u/Rhymeswithdick]

"Years" before? I appreciate the image comparisons, but "years" before is incredibly unhelpful. How many years? 2 years? 20 Years?

[u/BigCatMellow → u/gkfesterton]

I feel like the fact that the same person took those photos should be cause enough for alarm regardless of the years apart.

[u/battenhill]

I'm sure glad we have the type of government and corporate leaders in charge who can manage a crisis 

[u/chupacadabradoo → u/battenhill]

Ohhh… you said “stop burning fossil fuels to power these data centers that generate racy videos of cartoon children?” We thought you said “scuttle the escape pods”… so we did.

[u/fakeaccount572 → u/chupacadabradoo]

https://giphy.com/gifs/1z4LQOCusp40fHNK7t

[u/yourlocaltouya → u/fakeaccount572]

Oh, she sure was delightfully awful.

[u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

In the state of Utah, 68% of all water diversions are for the purpose of irrigating alfalfa. Every other use – every shower, dishwasher, yard, park, data center, laundromat, car wash, apartment complex, etc – combined amounts to half the water usage of alfalfa in the state.

On a related note, alfalfa is grown mainly to feed cattle. For every 100 calories of feed given to cattle, we get 3 calories in return via their meat. It seems a more efficient use of water would be to grow crops that humans can eat directly, that way 100 of 100 feed calories are used by humans, instead of filtering those 100 calories though a cow and getting 3 in return.

[u/C0Ha → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

The best part: the alfalfa isn’t for us. Most of that gets sold to Saudi Arabia and other desert countries to feed THEIR cattle, because growing alfalfa there is more expensive. We are wasting our own water to grow water inefficient crops to sell overseas to feed other people’s cows so they can enjoy beef at a cheaper cost.

[u/AltruisticCoelacanth → u/C0Ha]

29% of alfalfa grown in Utah is exported internationally. Its still a lot, but it's not most. The way the math works out though, about 20% of water diverted in the state of Utah ends up being effectively exported to foreign countries. For reference, about 10% of our water is used for indoor residential purposes.

So, foreign countries use double the amount of Utah's water that Utahns use in their homes and apartments.

[u/im_just_a_nerd → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

Would love to see Arizona’s numbers in this format.

[u/azrckcrwler → u/im_just_a_nerd]

Arizona uses about 72% of our water on agriculture.

I'm not sure about our alfalfa export numbers, but we do also export a large amount to Saudi Arabia. And there are multiple SA owned agriculture companies here.

[u/Bennyboy1337 → u/azrckcrwler]

The kicker is alfalfa is outlawed in Saudi Arabia because it consumes too much water, so we put it on a shipping container and ship it half way around the world to avoid that ban.

[u/Appropriate_Mess6777 → u/Bennyboy1337]

what a stupid fucking world

[u/BurninRunes → u/azrckcrwler]

Arizona water districts also are in a use in lose it setting so a lot of farmers in yuma flood irrigate and use inefficient methods to preserve their rights.

[u/twarrr → u/im_just_a_nerd]

Arizona grows most of its feed crop for domestic use. A class I took about two months ago had exports at somewhere less than 20%, but exporters figured out they can farm out in sticks to avoid scrutiny.

Iirc alfalfa is somewhere around 30 - 40% of agricultural water use, which hovers around 70% of all Arizona water use. Alfalfa is the undisputed champion of popular thirsty crops, followed by cotton. Both of which are or related to one of the 5 C's (Cattle, cotton) for AZ economic drivers.

That said, cattle and its supporting operations make less than 1% of Arizona GDP. The reality is feed lots need to become scarce in the southwest.

[u/AltruisticCoelacanth → u/im_just_a_nerd]

All of my numbers comes from an analysis done by a professor at the University of Utah. I'm sure there is some equivalent analysis for Arizona out there

[u/screamingcarnotaurus → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

The data are not available because Arizona does not meter or require the Saudi alfalfa fields to report water usage. I believe the demand for this started 3 or 5 years ago, but it's not being done. Phoenix native.

[u/particleman3 → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

People love to trot out the export to Saudi Arabia as a convenient boogieman because it absolves them of their own part in the problem. Of the percentage of exported alfalfa grown in Utah only about ten percent goes to Saudi Arabia. China buys 50% ish.

[u/hoopdog7 → u/particleman3]

Both are bad

[u/Admiral_de_Ruyter → u/C0Ha]

Dude you should celebrate, some people are getting very rich running this business and are living the American dream you should aspire to and maybe probably could live some day!

[u/MongolYak → u/Admiral_de_Ruyter]

Believe it or not, Utah's current governor is an alfalfa farmer...

[u/madness817 → u/MongolYak]

Hes a fucking rat. During a state employee townhall, he was asked to address the concern of alfalfa farming water usage. He got flustered and gaslight the audience with, "don't you guys like food?!"

[u/no_sight → u/C0Ha]

The best best part, is the reason the alfalfa is for Saudi Arabia is because it's illegal to grow there because it uses too much water.

[u/PitchBlac → u/C0Ha]

I mean, the issue is not really exporting of the crop. They should just grow it where it actually makes sense. But right now, it’s looking like we need to cut our meat consumption.

[u/Pete0730 → u/PitchBlac]

Cutting our meat consumption is a good idea for a hundred reasons beyond water

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

This pisses me off to no end every time I think about it. Why are we growing a water intensive crop in the high desert?!

[u/cjh6793 → u/AbysmalMoose]

Water rights that were grandfathered in long before this crisis was ever thought to be a possibility. Alfalfa of all things too, really?

[u/StanknBeans → u/cjh6793]

Time to alter the deal.

[u/CAT_ANUS_SNIFFER → u/StanknBeans]

Welp in Utah the governor owns a large majority of the fields if I remember correctly.. so a deal would be hard to alter.

[u/land-league-inspo → u/AbysmalMoose]

Because the governor has an alfalfa farm himself.

[u/Enginerdad → u/AbysmalMoose]

Two reasons:

1. Cheap land
2. "Fuck everybody but me" mentality. AKA American capitalism

[u/C0Ha → u/AbysmalMoose]

Because it’s cheaper for us to do it than it is for the saudis. Almost all that alfalfa gets sold to the Middle East to feed their cows

[u/stingyboy → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

Animal agriculture consumes roughly 200 times more freshwater than AI data centers.

[u/poptart801 → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

(Not so) fun fact. Utah’s governor is an alfalfa farmer! shocked pikachu face

[u/Whhatsmyageagain → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

What’s funny is that the water conservancy districts report that household use is basically zero loss because it goes straight down a drain and back into the system, so anyone telling you it’s because you don’t turn off the sink between rinses when you brush your teeth is full of shit

[u/Ruin369 → u/AltruisticCoelacanth]

Thats why 1 hamburger takes 600+ gallons of water to make. Its the alfalfa.

[u/Traditional-Pie-7749]

8 points? What does each point signify?

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Traditional-Pie-7749]

Sorry, that may have been worded poorly. 8 percentage points. At ~14% capacity, the dam can't generate power.

[u/ifpeoplecouldtalk → u/AbysmalMoose]

oh damn.

[u/Quick_Two6258 → u/ifpeoplecouldtalk]

Oh dam

[u/Grumpytitss → u/Quick_Two6258]

No dam power

[u/WideHuckleberry1 → u/AbysmalMoose]

Thank you for saying that instead of 8%, which unfortunately is common enough that it caused confusion here.

[u/Bingus_III → u/Traditional-Pie-7749]

It's a touchdown plus a two point conversion away from being out of water.

[u/So_HauserAspen → u/Bingus_III]

Shit.  That will cover the point spread on the predictive market bets

[u/Striking_Broccoli_28 → u/Bingus_III]

Let's cut it down to 4 safeties. That should last us a bit longer.

[u/phansen101 → u/Traditional-Pie-7749]

Percentage point e.g. 22%->14%

Just saying 8% would mean 22%->20.24%

[u/ImNoNelly]

Is that the antelope canyon marina?

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/ImNoNelly]

It is!

[u/ImNoNelly → u/AbysmalMoose]

Jesus...I went there years ago and we unloaded our little kayaks all the way up at the top of the marina is in the picture. And even then it felt like the lake was struggling. This is insane.

[u/Greifvogel1993]

Any one else remember that interview clip of the GOP elected official from Utah answering questions about water usage in the state,
And when asked about the ramifications of allowing entities to draw more water than allotted, his answer was that God will provide.

Pepperidge farms remembers

[u/TruffleHunter3 → u/Greifvogel1993]

Not only that, but just a couple short years ago, politicians in St George (southwest Utah) were proposing a plan to pipe water from LAKE POWELL so their city can keep growing!

[u/IllugaBabyBeluga → u/Greifvogel1993]

I mean, that's part of the Mormon Zionism philosophy, just like the divine seagulls to bail their ancestors out from their first crisis in Utah?

[u/burtbomberz]

They should build more ai data centers in that area and the smart machines will figure out how to solve the water crises ......( I'm being sarcastic)

[u/chupacadabradoo → u/burtbomberz]

They should build a coal power plant to pump water from elsewhere to fill the reservoir so they can keep generating power with the dam.

[u/Warbr0s9395 → u/chupacadabradoo]

They should just pump the water back up and just keep reusing it to make power

[u/JackpineSavage74 → u/Warbr0s9395]

Big energy doesn't like this one

[u/NaPaCo88 → u/chupacadabradoo]

https://giphy.com/gifs/nKFXQkxLRiEhy

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/burtbomberz]

Ah, the ol' Spencer Cox (Utah's governor) strategy!

[u/pork_fried_christ → u/AbysmalMoose]

Mormons love cox. 

[u/Awingbestwing]

Well this is an easy fix, simply add more water to it!

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Awingbestwing]

...I have to make a call.

[u/Spurned_Seeker]

Cut the allocation for alfalfa crops by 50% and suddenly the problem is solved

[u/phillyvinylfiend → u/Spurned_Seeker]

Or stop trying to grow crops in a desert. This is like when they used literally TONS of coal to heat greenhouse for growing pineapples in the UK. 

Why not just flood the land and grow rice.

[u/yossarian19 → u/phillyvinylfiend]

hahahah we are actually doing this outside Sacramento. Not as dramatic maybe as alfalfa in Utah but it's pretty dumb.

[u/Goodolewhatshisface]

Thank God we’re paying billions in taxpayer $$ getting rid of solar and wind! So much winning 🏆 🏆

[u/Friedo100 → u/Goodolewhatshisface]

You could put some solar panels over the water to stop it from evaporating. but yeah.

[u/semioticmadness → u/Friedo100]

“Excuse me, officer? That man right there! Friedo100 just suggested anti-american activities and should be imprisoned to work in the propane mines!”

[u/So_HauserAspen → u/Goodolewhatshisface]

All praise the DOW

Long live the shareholders

[u/RocMerc]

Is there any plan for this? Like it’s clearly going to happen. Is the government just ignoring that?

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/RocMerc]

It's being addressed in the same way we're handling climate change. There are small, minor changes being implemented that are far too small and late to make any meaningful difference.

[u/jackalopeDev → u/RocMerc]

Water politics is complicated as fuck. There's been ongoing negotiations between the Colorado river states that have really led nowhere. A week or two ago there was a two year plan put in place that will result in lower basin states getting a mandatory reduction, but it's a stop gap and not really enough to address the overall issue imo.

[u/NickVirgilio]

I was just there yesterday paddling into Labyrinth Canyon (incredible experience if you ever get the chance). In this image, you can see up the near canyon wall the transition of color in the sandstone from bleached to near-red. That is where the water level was just 3 years ago. You have to imagine how much water that actually is, when you consider this lake is nearly 160 miles long and has more lakeshore line to it than the west coast of the US (Alaska excluded).

[u/Finlay00]

The Colorado River needs to be managed better

[u/resilindsey → u/Finlay00]

Our current federal gov't sucks, however much of the reason people in charge, even in good times, can't manage it efficiently, is because of archaic water rights rules that cannot be easily circumvented. Stuff like use-it-or-lose-it that encourages water waste and divvying out portions of water that doesn't exist. The whole system needs to be rewritten, but legally speaking, is such a daunting task that if you even begin to try will meet fierce resistance.

Anyway we're all fucking doomed because basically a bunch of old white men a hundred plus years ago locked in water partitions for basically forever with no outlook towards conservation or the future.

[u/Finlay00 → u/resilindsey]

We are not doomed. Laws can change. As much as our current government does suck, they are working with southwest states to at least help this issue.

[u/Ha-Charade-You-Are → u/Finlay00]

Why doesn’t it just create more water for us instead

[u/ahses3202 → u/Finlay00]

I'm going to be real and honest with you, chief. California, Arizona, and Nevada are more likely to literally shoot each other than fix this problem. In fact, they nearly did it once in the 30s. The issue of the Colorado is that these states can't exist without it, and convincing one party to use less means thousands of people lose their livelihoods overnight. These people make up powerful lobbies in their respective states to maintain as much water as they can get, because if they don't use it it goes downstream to someone else and that someone else isn't them.

[u/Olyogun]

#Infuriatingasfuck

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Olyogun]

Also that. Amazing what decades of ignoring a problem can do.

[u/stardog_champ13]

This should not be a surprise to anyone.

We have been warned about this for at least the last 30 years. And we have done next to nothing to prevent it. We actively do the exact opposite.

Sad.

[u/BeGoodToEverybody123]

... and the richest man in the world desperately wants to increase the population. Brilliant.

[u/throwaway99999543]

It’s almost like building enormous farms and cities in the desert was an easily foreseeable bad idea.

Almost nothing that gets water from Powell or Hoover should exist. It’s not meant to be there

[u/ChilligerTroll]

Nothing to worry about. Nothing to see here.

[u/ParatusPlayerOne]

We need water capture infrastructure in this country. How about some serious civil engineering projects over the next 10 years?

[u/Zikro → u/ParatusPlayerOne]

Best we can do is build a shitty fence across the southern border.

[u/DrewCrew62 → u/Zikro]

Followed up by burning money in a meaningless war against iran

[u/its-diggler → u/DrewCrew62]

All in an attempt to distract from pedophiles running the government.

[u/Admiral_de_Ruyter → u/its-diggler]

It’s a sad state of affairs that this statement isn’t even satire. The US government is literally run by proven pedophiles, what a time to be alive.

[u/SereneDreams03 → u/ParatusPlayerOne]

Nah, let's just keep dropping bombs on Iran, and build useless battleships. /S

[u/Mysterious_Reality_ → u/ParatusPlayerOne]

I’m not even legally allowed to capture rain water at my house. So that tells you where we are at.

[u/bullwinkle8088 → u/ParatusPlayerOne]

Many of the dams in that region were built during an unusually wet period. In the decades since the rain and snowfall have returned to what is now known to be more normal amounts.

That was not known when the water use plans were created, but no one is willing to back off from those historic agreements.

[u/huffynerfturd]

Dont worry, civilization's collapse is already priced in. The Market will live on.

[u/drd_ssb]

Sad…living in Utah, I’ve always wanted to go! Rent a house boat with friends… could’ve been fun

[u/Remy1985 → u/drd_ssb]

Conversley, Glen Canyon is reemerging which was described by Abby as "a portion of earth's original paradise." Maybe future generations will get to experience it's glory?

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Remy1985]

I wonder a bit about that. I hear people say it was amazing. Is it a rose colored glasses situation or was it really something special?

[u/Wrestlerofthechoss → u/AbysmalMoose]

Really special 

The dam should have never been built. 

[u/Tasty-Performer6669]

Perhaps we stop letting the Saudis grow their alfalfa sprouts for their camels here because it uses too much water in Saudi Arabia. For real. Look it up.

[u/Lanky_Boat2276]

It's a good thing it's been a chilly summer then... oh wait...

[u/kdesi_kdosi]

yo apparently there is this thing called alfalfa that needs a fuckton of water... maybe stop farming it?

[u/RecognitionOne395]

Lots of blaming data centers, but this has been slowly happening for a very long time.

[u/nobodyknowsanythings]

The math on just how much they are over drawing the reservoir is interesting. It is really not as much as you’d expect. I think its on the order of 10% more water out than in. The water allocations that are set in stone rather than based on inflows is the issue.

[u/Gooch-VonQueef]

Good thing we cut snap benefits for the people to give to the Data centers.

[u/SawOne729]

Hope the super El Niño coming later this year helps put some water back in it.

[u/Upstairs-Basis9909 → u/SawOne729]

We are in it, and it’s drought.

[u/LongLonMan → u/Upstairs-Basis9909]

Not expected until later his year and beg of next year

[u/windchaser__ → u/Upstairs-Basis9909]

> We are in it, and it’s drought

While El Nino’s a beast globally, in the southwest it usually brings a lot more water, particularly in winter.

[u/intronert]

I love the fact that no one is willing to take any action as this disaster slowly rolls in.

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/intronert]

Reminds me of that Austen Powers scene where the steamroller slowly rolls toward a screaming guard.

[u/strangebutalsogood]

https://giphy.com/gifs/8Ji6CO51IoTVS

Hope your war rigs are ready.

[u/f3nnies]

The silver lining to this is that, if we are very lucky, we might be able to spin this into removing Glen Canyon Dam. You know, the dam that has done permanent and increasingly severe harm to all aquatic ecosystems up and downstream of it for hundreds of miles. The Glen canyon dam that flooded Glen canyon, which was described as one of the most beautiful and distinctive places in the entire country before they flooded it.

[u/HERMANNATOR85]

We should definitely let the data centers use the rest of it

[u/broesel314]

So that is what those "warm summers" we "had before" look like? Interresting indeed

[u/Misty7297]

Good thing we are farming all that alfalfa for the middle east though!

[u/Larry_Wickes]

Is this the lowest it's ever been?

[u/AbysmalMoose → u/Larry_Wickes]

No, 2023 it got to about a foot and a half lower. The difference however is we didn't get any snow last year, so this time there isn't any natural relief coming. We can drain some upstream reservoirs to help, but the fact of the matter is we're using more water than we're getting.

[u/Stomper8479]

Nevada is the only state that takes water conservation seriously. California and Arizona are finally getting better. The other Colorado River states are still trying to claim it’s just a drought and Mead and Powell will fill up once the drought ends.

[u/HighClassWhyteTrash]

I'm shocked that I've read through most of the comments and no one has mentioned Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner. It should be required reading for anyone living west of the Mississippi.

[u/Realistic-Sale-4471]

Let's build a data center here! ok, edit: </sarcasm>

[u/offaxis7]

But let’s keep building in the desert SW. let’s keep building golf courses in the desert.

[u/petrovmendicant]

It can be a really jarring thing seeing just how much water disappears in a drought, particularly now with water consumption rising with new industry and data centers.

Shasta Lake in Northern California (with Shasta Dam) got so low back in 2015 and 2021 that the boat docks were several hundred feet from the water. This article shows comparison photos between normal years and recent drought years. It is crazy. Growing up, the lake was almost always within a few feet of the tree line and the campsites, but now it is rare for it to get even close.

In the picture below, you can't hardly even see the tree line at the very top edge of the picture. My family hiked down to look for old artifacts and oddities. Found a ton of beer cans with pull tabs from 50 years before, a shit ton of square nails from a century ago, couple horseshoes, and two sunken boats. One looked newerish (maybe 10 years), but the other one was from way back when the dam was first built. It was pretty degraded, but the boat's plaque with the info was still legible enough.

[u/StuckinSuFu]

What a world The greatest generation handed to the boomers.... all to throw away in a single generation. So happy for our future...

[u/SaintPariah1]

Gonna hit the fan as soon as Trump is done with his second term. He’ll say everyone else ruined it while he was trying to save it. All lies as always.

Then we get four years of Dems being blamed while republicans drag their heels in courts trying to figure out why we’re so deep in debt after all this bipartisan bullshit.

[u/LeatherRebel5150]

Even with moving to alternative sources of energy I still think the country as a whole should be investing heavily into desalination plants and pumping the water all over the country

[u/NYC2FLA2BUR]

The upcoming El Niño, which is forecast to be one of the strongest ever, won't eliminate the problems at either Lake Powell or Lake Mead are having currently, but it will come pretty close.
The effects of it start hitting in southeast corner of the United States in October.
The same thing happened in 2022. Mead was almost dry. The 'joke' back then was that people were finding dead bodies that had been tossed in during previous decades because of bad gambling debts at Las Vegas casinos just a short driveway away.

[u/The_Summary_Man_713 → u/NYC2FLA2BUR]

El Niño is an outlook, not a forecast. It’s not guaranteed to do anything and very well may not.

Everyone here in CO keeps cheering on El Niño because that COULD mean more snow (after a record breaking hot winter and lack of any snow) but we very well may be disappointed again.

[u/Admirable_Let_2961]

Build desalination plants. Plenty of coast line.